Written by ajdnqp93 on July 2, 2018 in

Our Guest: Teepa Snow

About This Episode

It’s a heartbreaking reality that four in five families will fall apart before their deadly struggle with dementia is over. The primary reason, according to recognized authority Teepa Snow? People fail to talk about their concerns and issues in ways that are helpful. The good news: Caregivers as well as those at risk for dementia can change how they communicate – by patiently working toward a starting point for change instead of increasingly confronting to a point of impasse. Because at the end of the day, says Snow, “this is all about relationship and how we are going to get through this.”

5 Things You’ll Learn

  1. Differences between Alzheimer’s disease and other forms of dementia
  2. Early signs and episodic patterns of dementia in you or a loved one
  3. Five key areas of life we should all regularly monitor
  4. Challenging yourself with the right opportunities – not too little, not too much
  5. Being supportive in ways that help caregivers not just survive but thrive

Transcript

Announcer:

Welcome to our podcast called Love, Longevity, where we help you to live longer better. Our host, Michael FitzPatrick, Founder and CEO of the Long Term Living Association, otherwise known as the LTLA, interviews thought leaders, innovators, and experts across the country on a variety of issues related to aging and longevity, finances, legal, legacy and philanthropy, health and wellness, relationships and family, housing and transition, caregiving, and more. The goal of the LTLA and this podcast is to change the paradigm as to how seniors and their families view and plan for aging and longevity issues. Now, join us as we welcome today’s very special guest on this episode of Love, Longevity.

Michael FitzPatrick:

Welcome everybody to this podcast, Love Longevity. Our episode today is Changing the Culture of Dementia: Until There’s a Cure, There’s Care. My name is Michael FitzPatrick. I am the CEO and Founder of the Long Term Living Association, otherwise known as the LTLA. Our tagline as most of you know is your partner for aging options. We have a wonderful guest with us today. I am so honored to have Teepa Snow on our call. Before I go any further, Teepa, can you just confirm that you can hear me and I can hear you?

Teepa Snow:

I can indeed and it sounds good from my end.

Michael FitzPatrick:

Wonderful, likewise. Teepa Snow is a recognized authority. I read her bio in a second because it’s very impressive. I’ve followed her work for quite some time in the area of dementia, and caregiving, and aging, and longevity. She is a thought leader and widely recognized for her work. She’s been referred to me by a number of people in my network as somebody that I have to know, I have to interview for this podcast because this issue that she deals with is growing daily, and people need the tools and the resources to deal with and coop with some of the issues around the topic of dementia. Teepa will give you her story and her background, but I feel very blessed and honored today to have her on our call and our podcast. The listeners who are dealing with this issue now around the issues of dementia and aging or who may be dealing with it in the future are going to have access to a wonderful amount of resources in this short, condensed, consolidated interview today. Teepa, we are really looking forward to this conversation. I know you started your company name, which is Positive Approach, LLC, which I love because it focuses on the positive elements of aging and longevity. You also are a realist and you’ve dealt with the reality of some of the not so pleasant scenarios that accompany this stage of life.

Teepa Snow:

Yeah, for sure, yeah. People tend to think that I don’t have dementia in my life right now. For right now, we’re okay, so let’s not talk about it. It’s like well, that should be the time you do want to talk about it because when it’s in your life, you barely have time to think let alone talk. It’s a real challenge. I first got started when my grandfather moved in when I was a kid. My grandma died and he moved in. The reason he moved in was he was in Cleveland; we were in Pittsburgh at the time. We got a phone call that he was trying to get into peoples’ apartments. He said that he was the superintendent of the building. It had been years since he was the superintendent. When my grandma died, apparently, she’d been holding things together with bailing wire and little hooks and things.

When that happened, and after the funeral when we went back, it became obvious that being independent wasn’t an option, but we didn’t realize how much of a challenge it was. My mom, it turned out, although she is an excellent, or was, an excellent phys ed teacher, and a very creative woman, and very dynamic, she has never been a good caregiver. It’s very clear that isn’t her expertise. When my grandfather moved in, they would have daily battles and fights because he would say things like, “Well, I’ve got to get back. Flo’s looking for me. I’ve got to get back to Cleveland. I can’t stay here.” She’d say, “Dad, remember she’s dead.” “No, wait, no, no, no. I’m talking about Flo, your mom.” “Yeah, I know, dad. She’s dead.” “No, she isn’t. This is ridiculous.”

They would get into a fight, which is not abnormal at all by mid-stage disease. We didn’t even know we had it in the house and suddenly we’re in the middle, which is not uncommon. It turned out it worked a whole lot better for me to go, “Grandpap, if you leave I’ll be here all alone in the afternoon while mom’s still at work. Would you just stay for today and then you can go back?” He’d say, “Well, alright, fine. I’ll stay for today. Don’t cry, it’s fine.” I could get him to do things with me. You could call it the generational difference, or you could call it I’m just a little more prepared to be willing to go where somebody is, and not try to get them to be where I want them to. That started it off.

Then I worked with kids with developmental disabilities as a teenager in a volunteer mode. Then I went to college either wanting to go into medicine and special ed; I wasn’t sure. After doing five different majors, my mother said, “Either you graduate or you pay for the next year at Duke. Get over it.” She was a very practical woman. I graduated, but I really wasn’t all that prepared to do a whole lot being a zo major. I spent a couple years working pretty much in hotel industry night clerk because that’s what they needed. When you have a zo degree as an undergrad, you don’t have a whole lot else and I volunteered in the day as a day center person working with developmental disabilities through adulthood and older adults with dementia. This was back in the day before mainstreaming, before a lot of things, so it was a real mixed bag. I learned a lot.

What I learned is wow, this causes you to really have to use your brain and use everything you’ve got and how awful and how amazing at the same time. Having started there, somebody from an OT curriculum came to evaluate a young woman I worked with who had Cerebral Palsy, and also was non-verbal, and had started to develop some pressure areas on her feeding situation, and couldn’t eat well, and was losing weight. She was also a good friend of mine. She was about 15, 20 years younger than me, but we formed a relationship. She’d come to my house on weekends. She was a friend as much as somebody I cared for in the community. They say, “You know, we’re starting an OT program. If you’re interested, I think you could get in.” Now, having decided there were things I didn’t want to do, I decided to go to OT school at UNC in Chapel Hill. Then ever since then, I’ve been drawn to places and spaces where you can learn more about brains. That’s how I got started. Now, if you wanted to do something with that little bio thing, that’s where that plays out. In other words, I can’t hold a job after that I guess is what it boils down to.

Michael FitzPatrick:

An entrepreneur, an entrepreneur, an entrepreneur. Sometimes people aren’t really suited to work within a company system. Sometimes people, they have a mission, a calling that pulls them outside that.

Teepa Snow:

You wouldn’t know anything about that would you, Michael?

Michael FitzPatrick:

I’m trying to figure that out. I’d be a horrible employee. I know that because I like to have our own visions and carry them out.

Teepa Snow:

There you go.

Michael FitzPatrick:

Teepa, you are one of America’s leading dementia care training specialists and speakers. Your company, Positive Approach to Care, which PAC is the acronym, provides awareness, knowledge, and skill-building opportunities for professionals, family members, and people living with dementia around the world. The online portion helps spread your message even further than you can go as one person, which is great that you’ve capitalized on that. Your background in occupational therapy has given you a very interesting combination along with your personal experiences over the last 40 years personally and professionally in this field, that you’ve developed a program that’s called GEMS, G-E-M-S, the GEMS States model. From what I understand, you’ll talk more about this, but it’s designed to address the progression and combine the PAC skills, those positive approach to care skills, and techniques to optimize care throughout the world for people who are dealing with these dementia issues. Tell us just for starters, what is the difference between dementia and Alzheimer’s and why does that even matter?

Teepa Snow:

Yeah, so one of the challenges is the language we use does matter. With Alzheimer’s, it turns out as this specific type, and cause, and form of dementia. Dementia is a great big umbrella term. It covers at this point close to about 120 different forms, causes, types, variations of this thing that actually what it means is your brain is deteriorating. Your brain is dying on you. Portions of your brain are no longer wired and working the way they should be. As a matter of fact, not only are they not wired well, you’re losing parts of them. Parts are fading away. That’s really an important distinction because if I have a great big umbrella term, that means at least two parts of your brain are actively dying.

There’s one disease called Alzheimer’s that people tend to think is dementia, then you think all dementias look like Alzheimer’s. It’s like error, error. The reality is we start with the person and we look for changes in the person. Are those changes progressing like it’s more than it was before? Are those changes impacting how they can live? In what areas? In what areas quite honestly at this point and time, are they still able to do things? What do they have left and what are they missing? Then what happens next? Because each of the dementias under that umbrella have some unique features to it.

For instance, something called vascular dementia is not actually a brain disease; it’s a blood supply, and oxygen supply, and nourishment of the brain disease. Alzheimer’s and vascular seem to like each other. They like to hang out together. Vascular, if I could control oxygen, and blood flow, and nourishment better, what does that mean? It means I could buy myself some time. Maybe I might not even progress as quickly. Maybe I could pause things a little bit. Whereas, if I have Alzheimer’s, less able to make it pause, or halt, or turn around, or even lighten up a little bit sometimes. Lewy body, whole different dementia. That one’s a totally different dementia and a lot more common than we used to think.

If I’m just thinking Alzheimer’s, like short-term memory, but my long-term is fine, immediate recall, having difficulty with finding the words, but actually still being able to do a fair amount of thinking, although I forget whether I said something or not. Then we get to Lewy body where my brain says, oh, this is the truth; she’s telling you a lie. That’s not what happened. It’s called confabulation where my brain makes stories up. I have nighttime wakefulness. I have episodes where I’m absolutely fine and episodes where I’m really awful. I’m seeing things and those things might be animals, children, or people. I’m hypersensitive to meds, and sensation, and movement. I have falls that are unexplained. Then suddenly, I’m fine again. Except I’m not because I have these abnormal growths in my brain, synuclein and protein malformations unlike beta-amyloids and Tau pathologies with Alzheimer’s.

Then we have frontal temporal dementias. Then we have alcohol-related dementia. The list could go on and on. The difference is if all I’m looking for is Alzheimer’s symptoms than what I miss are signals that somebody I care about or even myself, I’m having issues that are brain failure issues. I want to get my support in place, my ideas in line with who, what, when, where, how am I going to do this, what are some good strategies? What are some practical things I should do now before it gets to a place where I can’t be in control and connected to the person who might be helping me?

Michael FitzPatrick:

What are some of those issues that you’re referring to that you can be on the lookout for or families can be on the lookout for?

Teepa Snow:

Yeah, if you look at me, and then you look at me a year ago, and you see some shifts in things. Whether or not they’re decision making, whether it’s impulsivity, whether it’s the ability to hold true to values I’ve always lived with, or whether or not I’m actually not able to figure things out the way I’ve been able to, or I’m getting less rational or logical about things. Where I can’t figure out the thing that it is and so I start using phrases: you know what I’m talking about. The one who goes down to the – you know where you go down and you get the thing and then you can come back. Then you know what is in the – the mail place. You know what I’m talking about.

It’s not just when I’m tired or when I’ve had too much to drink on one occasion maybe but this pattern. You’re starting to notice an episodic pattern. Normal aging doesn’t result in significant changes unless something is going on. The reality is sometimes it isn’t dementia and what it needs is a different approach. It needs less medication. It needs a different medication. It needs exercise. It needs me recognizing I am living with anxiety and I need to get my anxiety dealt with. It’s depression; I need to get that dealt with, or –

Michael FitzPatrick:

Are you still there, Teepa? Teepa?

Teepa Snow:

Yep, I’m here. Can you hear me?

Michael FitzPatrick:

There we go.

Teepa Snow:

Oh Josh, sorry. I don’t know what happened.

Michael FitzPatrick:

We’re good. Maybe we went into a role play by accident. We forgot that we were doing a role play.

Teepa Snow:

Nope, oops.

Michael FitzPatrick:

Changes in decision making, changes in holding onto what was once a core value for somebody.

Teepa Snow:

Language.

Michael FitzPatrick:

Language.

Teepa Snow:

Yeah, talking about things I didn’t use to talk about in public, or reacting to people, or having sudden meltdowns, or becoming very emotional, or withdrawing, frankly. I’m not interested in that anymore. I don’t want to do that anymore. Stay out of my business. Who told you to do that? It’s a whole variety of laundry list. The main thing is to notice early and to not be confrontational about it. That’s the worst thing is like, “Michael, I am telling you, you are changing and you are making mistakes. You need to listen to me. You don’t need to –” It’s like, oh, where did I come from

What happens is the change in the other person is making you different, but you never recognize your own difference. You’re busy pointing out theirs. It’s one of the worst things we do early on because it sets the stage for the other person to want to not have these conversations, to not think about this out loud, to not bring up what I’m most concerned about. You frankly scare me and I scare you. We start resisting each other and we’re in this. It’s unfortunate about four out of five families will fall apart before this is over. They just start coming apart at the seams. They don’t talk to each other. They argue with one another. One person thinks something, the other one thinks something else. Money becomes an issue. Housing becomes an issue. Care becomes an issue. Legal issues: we’re in court; we’re doing guardianship. Oh, what a mess. Because we didn’t talk about this in a way that’s helpful. It’s hurtful. It’s harmful. It’s isolating.

Michael FitzPatrick:

What does happen to someone’s brain when they develop various forms of dementia? What changes and what doesn’t?

Teepa Snow:

Michael, what if I were to try to get you to want to eat a donut by just talking about the hole in the donut. Do you think you’re rea interested in eating a donut because it has a hole?

Michael FitzPatrick:

No, I want the other part.

Teepa Snow:

Yeah, that’s the tricky part. When we notice is missing in somebody’s brain, like they can’t do something, we need to learn to work around it because I can’t make that something come back. By focusing on what’s missing, there’s nothing there. Yeah, I can focus there, but I’m missing the parts that are still available. Being supportive means if you say, “Well, I don’t understand why I can’t drive.” Tell me you don’t understand why you can’t drive.

Michael FitzPatrick:

I don’t understand people, why I can’t drive.

Teepa Snow:

Now, if I were to say, Michael, you’ve had two accidents, and you have seven tickets because you keep going too fast, and you run into people.

Michael FitzPatrick:

I don’t have two accidents.

Teepa Snow:

You did too. You had two accidents. Remember the accidents? Remember where the cop came? Do you remember that?

Michael FitzPatrick:

I did not. Those were not even accidents. Those were not accidents.

Teepa Snow:

Michael, those were accidents. Don’t tell me –

Michael FitzPatrick:

Look it, I’m sitting here today. I’m in front of you today. I’m still fine. I did not –

Teepa Snow:

Oh my, I can’t – how can you not – now see, this is that – this is me being afraid that if I don’t get you to quit driving, you’re going to kill somebody or kill yourself. My fear is driving me. My frustration is driving me. Say it again, I don’t understand why I can’t drive. Go ahead and say that.

Michael FitzPatrick:

I don’t understand people, why I can’t drive.

Teepa Snow:

You’re not sure why I’m saying no driving right now. Is that right?

Michael FitzPatrick:

I don’t know why you think I shouldn’t drive.

Teepa Snow:

Yeah, so you’re not – nothing that’s happened makes you be nervous about driving at all? Is that true?

Michael FitzPatrick:

No, not up until now.

Teepa Snow:

Not up until now. Yeah, so me bringing it up, it’s a little bit like what’s going on here, huh?

Michael FitzPatrick:

Yeah, I don’t know why you’re concerned. If I’m not concerned, I’m not sure why you’re so concerned.

Teepa Snow:

I get that. I get that you’re not and I know that I am. What I’ve noticed is your reaction speed, your reaction time, they seem to be – it seems like you really want to go somewhere and go fast. Yet, sometimes the people in front of you, you’re having a hard time waiting on them. Do you think that might be true because it seems like you get up really close behind them?

Michael FitzPatrick:

These people now, they’re all texting when their driving. I want to get my errands done, and get to church, and get to –

Teepa Snow:

Yeah, there’s lots of stuff getting in the way. I agree with you. I’m wondering, there are a lot of people out there doing really stupid stuff. The problem is if you run into the back of them, in most places, they’re going to blame you, whether it’s your fault or not. You can try to take them to court, but it’s a mess. I’m wondering if for right now, for right now, what if we try something. If you sit in the passenger seat and you tell me what you think I should do, you advise me on driving, and I get a better sense of what your brain is thinking about this driving because the doctor is really pushing me hard, and saying I need to do something. I want to be respectful. I also am wondering whether we need to get somebody who’s not involved in this to do something because maybe I’m not the best person even. What do you think?

Michael FitzPatrick:

What if I just want to take my chances? I’ve been driving for 50 years.

Teepa Snow:

Yeah, let me ask you something, Michael, and I’m really curious. Would you want to hurt somebody by making a mistake, and kill them, or hurt a child by any chance?

Michael FitzPatrick:

No, that would be awful.

Teepa Snow:

Yeah, and I agree with you. That’s one of the things I would live in dread of, of doing something like that. I’m asking you for a huge favor. I think we need to get this looked at.

Michael FitzPatrick:

We can take a look at it.

Teepa Snow:

Okay, well I’ll do a handshake on that because that’s a starting point.

Michael FitzPatrick:

Good, okay.

Teepa Snow:

In that role play, did I get everything I wanted? No. Did you get everything you wanted? No. Did I move it forward?

Michael FitzPatrick:

A little bit, yep.

Teepa Snow:

Yeah, a little bit. Giving up independence is something people take for granted, but when you live with dementia in over 50% of cases the person doesn’t see the changes in their abilities. Me saying you’re changing doesn’t make them get it. Trying to figure out strategies and ways to get things to shift without a blaming becomes a real important skill set. Not everybody’s skillful at that. Not everybody’s meant to be a hands-on caregiver. Quite honestly, some people should step back, manage the care but not do the care because it’s just not a good match for who they are and how they work. Sometimes families are great combos and sometimes it doesn’t work that way. It’s just important to be flexible. That’s really what the GEMS are all about is recognizing everybody has strength and abilities; it’s just not always the same. How do I support you? How do I care for you when you are who you are but you’re different and I’m having to change because of the difference?

Michael FitzPatrick:

What are some of the causes that lead to various forms of dementia? Can somebody do anything to prevent that?

Teepa Snow:

Yeah, there are risk reduction strategies that we’re currently looking at now. Does that mean you’ll never get it? No, but can we buy you a decreased risk? The answer is in some cases, yes. Now, the greatest risk for getting dementia in most cases except for a few exceptions are getting older. The opposite thing of getting older is dying, so if you die, you don’t need to worry about dementia anymore. Unfortunately, not such a good outcome. The second thing is yeah, your gene pool does matter, but it’s not the be all and end all. Lifestyle matters. There are five key things we should all be checking ourselves on. One is stress level. Do you see things as opportunities, and interesting, and exciting? Are you doing things that challenge you but don’t overwhelm you? Are you feeling like you get a little variation every day and that’s a good match for you? Or are you totally stressed out or bored? Either one of those things is not a good place to be. You reduce your risk for getting a dementia when you challenge yourself with the just right opportunities; not too little, not too much.

The second is how well do you sleep? It turns out sleep, the activity of sleep is a healing process. It’s also an integrating process and it’s a toxin removing process. For babies, it’s when they grow. When we sleep in the various stages of sleep, we actually protect our brain. It’s neuroprotective. When we sleep, we heal our bodies. It’s neuroprotective. If we are cheating ourselves out of sleep or not having a good sleep hygiene and sleep behavior, we’re actually increasing our risk of getting dementia. Sleep is critical, but sleep can also be a symptom. Lack of sleep, sleeping all the time, those can be indicators of something’s wrong and we should check it out. Is it dementia or is it something else? It should make us curious. We also need sleep and we keep cheating ourselves and thinking we can make it up. It doesn’t really work that way.

The third is what we eat. What we put into us does matter. How much sugar, how much salt, how little water, how much alcohol, how much coffee, how many drugs? How many other things are we putting in there? Really looking at moderation, and the Mediterranean diet, and eating the food that has the greatest bang for the buck in the earlier part of the day when we’re going to use those calories, not just store them for the next whenever, and overeating. How much and what, it turns out that does matter. The amount of sugar particularly and sodium, salt. Then having enough hydration to make us work well. Really not paying attention to how well hydrated we live and hydration matters.

Then the fourth element is exercise. How well do you take care of this house that you live in? It’s a mobile home. It’s not a forever home. Unfortunately, you live here until you don’t have it anymore. It’s on the move, so taking care of it so it’s got good tires on and it’s going well. If you’re having pain or discomfort and it makes you not want to move, deal with it. We don’t want immobile people because when you do move, you have an increased risk of something going badly. It turns out your brains and your body are meant to be moving around, doing things, seeing things, engaging in things, socializing.

Which get us to our last piece of the puzzle, which is humans are meant to be social beings, so giving yourself a chance to enjoy being with others. Taking the time to engage, not just going out and eating, but going out and enjoying the company you have when you go out to eat. It’s not always about the food; it’s about who you’re with. Having fun, playing games, going out and doing things with other people that you enjoy but also challenge you a little bit. When we use or socializing skills, we actually use the majority of our brain. The cool part is when people live with dementia, they can still do a lot of those things if we learn some new strategies on how to be supportive rather than confrontational.

Michael FitzPatrick:

Oh my gosh, we could go on and on for hours. I’ve got a couple last questions here. I could definitely spend – and this is probably why your course helps people because this is a topic that has many layers and tentacles. What would you say that we can or should do if we experience interactions or behaviors that indicate somebody who’s living with dementia? What are some practical first steps here? Any other examples of some supportive language that we can use?

Teepa Snow:

One of the first things to think about is do they notice what I notice? If somebody says, you know, I feel like I just can’t hold onto things anymore. Instead of going, oh mom, everybody does that, or a friend, well, everybody does that. Instead, take what they told you and reflect back the value. It feels like things are getting harder for you lately? Now, is that something new or something you’ve been experiencing? If you’re willing, tell me a little bit about what’s causing you to say that and in what areas? Get curious rather than sit in judgment. Whether the judgment is, oh, it’s nothing. All people do this. I’ve had those. Don’t make assumptions. Really figure out. This person was worried enough to bring it up. Don’t just brush it off. Or if you’re worried enough and you want to bring it up say, “So Michael, tell me how things have been going for you lately because I’m curious. It seems like things are more challenging than the use to be but I’m curious what you have to say.” If we don’t start that way, we don’t know whether we’re looking at someone who gets it, and knows something’s changing and is looking for support, or whether we’ve got somebody who thinks everything’s fine, and we’re watching them go down the tubes. It’s like yikes. I’m going to need some support for me if I’m going to support them because they don’t get it.

If I start pushing against them, all we’re going to do is create resistance. That’s not what I’m looking for; I’m trying to help. Also, being willing finally to say, I am so sorry, Michael. I was just trying to help. I certainly didn’t mean to make you angry. That wasn’t my intent. I know I did and I’m sorry that happened. Frankly, that should never have happened. I didn’t have a right to do that. This is really hard and I hate it. Those are all my five I’m sorrys all in one. Sometimes being willing to say you’re sorry when you haven’t done anything can heal a relationship. Frankly, this is all about relationships and how are we going to get through this.

Michael FitzPatrick:

I’m sorry that we don’t have more time to go deeper on this very important issue. I’m laughing, but I understand the severity also of this and its effect that it has on families. Like you said, four out of five families are torn apart while this is happening and before it’s all over.

Teepa Snow:

Yeah, we have spouses who die, spouses who become so ill themselves, caregivers who give up their own life, and then don’t realize how much they’ve lost when the person does pass. Dementia is deadly. It’s a killer. There’s no surviving at this point in dementia. The people who are supporting need to learn how to survive and actually thrive. We’ve got to figure out how to live life without drama and trauma. It doesn’t serve any of us well. Challenges are one thing; being overwhelmed and isolated is way too frequently what happens though.

Michael FitzPatrick:

You work is on the proactive side of the equation, which is where I live, too. I think that the more we can move the needle towards people talking about it and addressing these things prior to, oh my gosh, the back end is so much better. Where can some of our listeners get more information on this whether they’re professionals in the industry, or whether they’re consumers, seniors, family members, loved ones? What’s the best place that we can direct them to get more of these resources that you provide?

Teepa Snow:

Yeah, we’re at teepasnow.com. Just my name, keep it simple: teepasnow.com. When you go there, there’s all kinds of stuff: lots of free things. Things if you want to follow, we have a journal every month that comes out. We’re trying to do a lot of outreach because we just feel the thing that people miss is the practical application. How do you do this well? How do you find what you need?

Michael FitzPatrick:

Wonderful; well Teepa, this episode on our Love Longevity podcast, Changing the Culture of dementia: Until There’s a Cure, There’s Care, you are caring big time for people. You’re going to leave a significant impact and legacy in the work that you’re doing whether you recognize it or have that direct conversation or it’s something that takes place and shows up 20, 30, 40 years later for somebody. Thank you for the work you’re doing in this industry and following your calling and your passion. You are truly changing the world one conversation, one family at a time. We’re honored to have you on this call and we thank you for your sharing today.

Teepa Snow:

Absolutely and thank you for doing what you’re doing, which is the same kind of message of we’ve got to ask the questions, we’ve got to get the answers, and we’ve got to move forward. Thank you, Michael.

Michael FitzPatrick:

You bet. Take care everybody and we’ll catch you on the next episode. Thanks, Teepa Snow.

Announcer:

Thank you for joining us on this episode of Love, Longevity. With 80 million Baby Boomers coming into retirement, we need to change the paradigm as to how seniors and their families view and plan for aging and longevity issues. Here at the LTLA, we are your partner for aging options. To learn more about the Long Term Living Association and how we can help you, please visit us at longtermliving.org.